When Doing It All Still Feels Not Enough with Talia Bombola

Welcome to the Real Life Momz podcast. It is time to take a break from all our to-dos and carve out this time to focus on ourselves.

I'm Lisa Foster, your host, and today I am here with fellow mom, confidence and assertiveness specialist and psychotherapist Talia Bombola And we are discussing what to do when you are feeling like you are doing it all, but still it's not enough. So, hi Talia. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I'm really looking forward to being here. I, it's such a. Important topic that when I was first looking into becoming a mom, I found that it wasn't spoken about enough. Like you mentioned, most every book was geared towards your kids and how to make sure that you, your kids have what they need, which to be very clear.

Is important and I, I do think that prep work needs to happen. However, not a lot of us were prepared unless we went looking for it for that dramatic identity shift that occurs when you become [00:01:00] a mother and if you let it crack yourself. Open and shift into that new identity. How do you do that in a way that isn't martyrdom?

Which is what was modeled probably for a lot of us with previous generations in motherhood. Sacrifice yourself the oxygen mask concept of put your own on before others was like not a thing. It was like frantically run around the plane, metaphorically, and then if you had an extra one, you should put it on.

Like, that's how a lot of people I think were mothered. Mm-hmm. So that's. That's our template. How we were parented is the template for how we parent and the identity template of what did my mom do or not do? Was she, was she a martyr? Was she self-sacrificial? Did she ever make time for herself? Did she have self-trust?

Did she have self abandonment? All of that needs to be discussed because when you have the birth of your child, you also have the birth of the mother. Mm-hmm. And if we're not focusing on our own birth, our rebirth of this is my role now or part of my identity, I don't suggest [00:02:00] that any mom makes it unless it's like the first, I would say like two to three years of life is really important for the kids' attachment.

Mm-hmm. And hyperfocus on like being their everything and that. As you, as they get older, the needs shift and lessen. So it's really about you not feeling like you need to feel behind of, well, this is what they needed two years ago. Why didn't they need that now? Their, their needs and wants are ever evolving.

Much like our desire to fulfill those needs and wants has to be ever evolving. So we don't get on that crazy loop of it's never enough. I'm doing everything. Why do I still not feel like I'm enough? Well, are you tying your self worth to how much thanks you're getting? Are you tying it to how productive you are, how clean your house is?

Are you comparing to other like, I'm sure we'll get in all of that today, but that all of that and more is where this like idea is birth from. You can do it all and it still isn't enough because maybe doing it all is not what's being asked of you in that moment. Right? [00:03:00] And oh my gosh, this is so. True.

I mean, I definitely fell into whatever the kids need. Let's just put that first to the point where. I didn't even know what I needed anymore. And as my kids are growing and they're older, I have a lot of space. And I'm also transitioning into this space where the kids will be leaving the house like I want going to college.

So she's out and I have another one trickling behind. And then it becomes this conversation of like, okay, now what? Right. And the now what should have been the whole time? Figuring out who you are. Now in this motherhood and. Also who you are transitioning to be. Because I am definitely not the mom, the person who entered motherhood, 19 years ago.

I'm so different. My priorities are different. Even my values have changed. I mean, so much has changed, right? My job has [00:04:00] changed. Everything has changed, and it's like, wow. Now who am I? Because I've. Changed so much during this time. So yeah. That's so, so big. And it's funny because recently, now that I have older kids, I asked, , how would you parent your kids?

Like, would you parent them the same way we did? And, and we've definitely put our kids ahead of us, ahead of our needs. For sure. And her response was interesting 'cause she said. You know, probably I will put my kids first, which honestly doesn't feel so good right now. So I can't wait to get into this with you because we need to teach them a little differently.

But, um, but she said, but I would definitely spend more time with my spouse and connecting and going out with friends and doing things like that. And I'm like, ah, I'm so glad that that's what you're doing. 'cause that's what I'm trying to do now. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, so interesting, right? That we do that. Okay. So what is behind this feeling to start with that we [00:05:00] feel we need to do it all in the first place, right?

Yes. I, I will, um, bookend or, or provide, these are not the only two, but at least two reasons why. One, being more based in evolutionary psychology. If this all-encompassing shift didn't occur, the species wouldn't be furthered. So motherhood has to change us in many ways. And I, I, the day I peed on the sick was like, I am a mother and my ex, who is an ex for a reason, did not feel the same way.

Obviously not being a mom, but like, was like, well, we're not parents yet. And I'm like. And this is a very early inkling that we are not going to be ending up together because as much as I thought, we just were not aligned on those values. Now, to say again, there's an evolutionary benefit to being all eclipsed and, and so immersed in motherhood and [00:06:00] preparation and the nesting and the, the, it's because that is our role to literally keep them alive.

They grow inside of us. We have to keep them alive in that sense. And then once they're out in the world. Because of the limits of the female human body. Babies are born three months early, always, even if they're not premature, but especially if they're premature.

It's even earlier. You can do the math on that. Our human body would have a gestation till about. One year if our bodies could handle it, but they can't. So babies are born early and they don't know from psychology that they're even a separate self till about three months old. They still think they're attached to you in utero.

And then we have moms going back to work at six weeks, which Fs everything up. That could be a whole other podcast. But then you have this other piece of it too that they don't know. They're separate, they're born defenseless. They can't even hold their neck up without us. That is not a good evolutionary function.

Right? Like back to the drawing board we go. And around three to four months, they start to have more neck. So you can see that come true. So there's a biological innate reason why this shift happens and it, and, and we're [00:07:00] hyperfocused on them because it shifts our brain chemistry. There's certain areas of our brain that get pruned back from neuron connections, and there's some areas that grow and strengthen.

And the mother's intuition. There's a biological, evolutionary function to having motherhood be at the forefront and at the precipice and. If we allow it to those needs and, and the attunement is the core part of, in psychotherapy from attachment lens attunement is how well like imagine a radio and tuning into a radio.

How clear can you get that connection? Doesn't mean you can't listen to your favorite station on the in-between and kind of pick up some of the words, but that's not the same as listening to your favorite song with noise canceling headphones on. The equivalent of listening to your favorite song with noise canceling headphones is.

Near perfection of attunement, which means matching what your child wants or needs. Mm-hmm. And this starts from infancy. When they cry or when they alert you, which is every mammal is born with a survival instinct. Ours is crying, other animals are running 'cause they would get eaten. Right. Well hopefully [00:08:00] we're not getting eaten.

'cause our adults are supposed to protect us. We're born knowing how to cry. If you look at Dunston baby language, it teaches parents how to decipher. Even at the youngest of newborns, what cry means. What. Does it say, nah, eh, like attuning to that frequency? You can have such a secure bond and attachment with your child from infancy and beyond, and a lot of parents.

Erroneously think, oh, they're just a kid. They won't remember Infancy to three years old. Especially sets the tone for pretty much their entire life. And every got podcast I say this, either the host or the listeners later on are like, that messed me up hearing it. I'm like, but it's not too late because you get another stint from nine to 25 and adolescents where all the neurons are being pruned again, you get a second go at it.

So if you didn't get it right. Zero to three. You have nine to 25, which is a much longer window to hopefully make some repairs. And if you didn't know it, you can't really hold yourself at fault because it's not like you knew it and ignored it. If you [00:09:00] implement it as soon as you learn it, even if your child isn't an infant.

You know their language. You know when they're angry, you know when they're happy, when they wanna talk to you, when they don't nonverbal communication, do they have the door open or shut? You can still learn their language so it's never too late. So that's a longer summary of like the biological, evolutionary psychological function of why this occurs.

The other reason why the self-sacrificial mother of doing it all and not feeling like enough occurs is because as a society, we're operating on very antiquated ideals that don't actually fit with the societal norms and demands of what is. Asked of or required of parents nowadays. And we have a huge gap socio-emotionally in society with men being maybe more financial providers, but they're severely lacking based on their own admission and based on what research shows, because that didn't use to be a need in relationships.

It was. I'll stay home and handle this. You go out and do this. It was antiquated and it worked for quite some time, but there were also a lot of barriers to exit in [00:10:00] marriages, which is why exits weren't really happening because women couldn't have their own bank accounts. They couldn't do this. Everybody was on Quaaludes and drinking Sauvignon Block, like it was just a different time, 50 to a hundred years ago, we didn't have the same freedoms afforded to us.

Now we don't have to stay, and that's rupturing a lot of people's ideals of. How do I wanna be a mother and can I take time for myself? And I don't wanna be self-sacrificial martyr. I'm doing it all for everybody and I'm exhausted. I don't want my kid to see that. But I also don't then wanna be so selfish that I put all of my own wants and hobbies above their actual needs because that's gonna mess them up in a different way.

Mm-hmm. So you have evolution in biology and psychology on one side of why this happens, and then you have this. So the societal system that has supported moms, just do it all. You carry all the mental load, sacrifice, everything, and for little to no appreciation, at least from your kids. It usually comes around 25 when they're like, you did this all on your own.

How so? The thanks does come you, [00:11:00] you know? Yeah. It just comes way later. But if you're not getting that appreciation and gratitude in the meantime from your partner, and instead they're like, well, yeah, you're the mom. You should do it. And you're getting antiquated gender roles pushing on. Who you should be.

And there's no guidebook. Now there's more books. Authors are writing about resin, the becoming of a mother. There weren't guidebooks before for our moms to, how do you have your own identity and have motherhood be even a 90% part of it? But how do you not lose yourself? And if you didn't have, not just you, Lisa, but if a, if a listener, if you didn't have a grasp of self before you became mother.

This is gonna be incredibly unmooring when your children do get older and don't need you as much. Mm-hmm. Prepped in society that all you'll ever need to be is a mom. When you're dating somebody, when are you get engaged, when are you gonna get married, when you have kids, all these milestones. Nobody stopped to consider, what do I want?

Do I even want to become a parent for my own journey? I didn't even know I could get pregnant. I was told by the doctors, it's probably not gonna happen for you because your cortisol, your progesterone, whatever. You'd been birth control so [00:12:00] long. And I was like. Okay. It's not in the cards. Ironically, I had just started therapy to process if I wanted to become a parent.

Then I got that news, and then about seven weeks in, I discovered by literal miracle I was pregnant. It should not have happened. It was the first and only time I had ever, had the risk happen of having like unprotected sex and there it was, and literally the first time I got pregnant, which is, as we all know from trying to have kids, a statistical anomaly.

So for many reasons I'm like, this was literally meant to be, and I psychologically prepped for that. However, I had a much different journey than a lot of other parents did. 'cause I didn't, I didn't necessarily want to have children than I didn't know if I could have them. Then I found out I was having it all within like six weeks and I was like.

Okay. We're prepping for it. And that is a unique experience for other parents. It's, I've always known I wanted this. I waited my whole life for this. And they either get pregnant very easily and have multiple children, or they struggle, right? This identity around motherhood. Asking yourself, why did [00:13:00] I want this?

Why do I want this? And what legacy do I wanna leave for my children, I think is the bridge. Of the biological and the societal. You can re-author how you want motherhood to look for you moving forward. If you bother to ask yourself, not what's in it for me selfishly, but what's in it for me? Meaning what can I bring to this and get out of it?

How can there be mutual reciprocity? In this mothering relationship and how do I not lose myself entirely? And if you never found yourself before you became a mom, how do you go about finding self now?

How do you not lose yourself? Or how do you connect with yourself if you never knew yourself Anyway? So I think that's huge because in all of this, like overwhelm of motherhood. Yeah. How do you do that?

How do you not lose yourself in it? 'cause it's so easy. I, I for, I'll start with, for people who [00:14:00] had a sense of self beforehand. This experience of the days are long, but the years are short and it won't be like this forever being so bittersweet, so heartbreakingly bittersweet.

It does feel like it's forever. Some days, and then other years or days, it feels like it went by in the blink of an eye and you're like, how are they already in kindergarten? What? Like I was just breastfeeding them. That's three months old yesterday. They can't be five. What kind of weird time math is this?

I feel robbed. Mm-hmm. And honoring you will get the chance to have time back for yourself, but when your kids are really little and they need you, that time doesn't belong to you. It belongs to them. It doesn't mean you sacrifice and never work out or never eat healthy or go on a walk or spend time talking to a friend or have a night off.

That's not what I'm suggesting. But we don't wanna counter with, that's what I'm familiar with. So I'll just keep doing my life as though nothing's changed [00:15:00] and hope for the best that my kid will be okay. That's not the path we're taking either. There has to be the middle ground of they come first, especially that zero to three years.

Then you get more time for yourself. They have school, they have friends, they have hobbies and activities where they don't need you as much. You start building back more of your life. Then it's important to be very close for them, for adolescents, not smothering so, but being around. Be puttering around the house.

Be available for them if you can. Making the lunches be available if you have to travel for work. 'cause working parents is a reality. Can you still be available? Can you not be on your phone all the time when you are home? Quality of time matters the most. Quantity of time is ideally a very close second.

If you can't have a high quantity, make sure your quality is top notch. That can combat some of these effects. Also, of not only not knowing who you are, but losing yourself and motherhood as well. If you knew who you were as a self, there will be time for you to get back eventually. But time when they're young is time for your [00:16:00] kids.

Once they get older, that's more for your life to get back. For the moms who never knew who they were. The journey then becomes what we just talked about. How do I balance time for my children? And they might have a, um, tougher time balance, uh, getting outta the martyr complex. And that would look more like from in therapy, assigning them.

You need to go to a workout class once a week. You need to have once a month girls night and, and some moms. I'm, I treat, are very anxious. I was one as well. Still am to some degree. How can I carve out that time and not feel guilty that I'm not giving, I'm not doing something for others, and in fact, I'm doing something for myself, like how my relationship is with myself is directly going to impact how I show up as a mom.

If I'm frazzled, undersleep, not working out, not caring for myself, everybody else is fed except me. That's frantic energy. That's not gonna help anyone. Versus if I take that extra 20 minutes and, and, you know, five minutes, [00:17:00] wash my face, brush my hair, like even if it's small quantities of time, can I maximize what I'm doing to pour back into my cup?

And eventually knowing I'll have more ability to do that, not only again, time-wise as my kids get older, the more I practice that muscle in building it, the less guilty I'll feel doing something for myself. Before I do something for others, a lot of moms think it's, and then I only do something for myself.

It's like a split. Internally psychoanalysis splitting usually comes from a very early primitive defense where I can't see something as good and bad. It has to be all good or all bad, and, and moms bring that with us a lot into adulthood. Safe, unsafe. It's very binary. That's not the case that you only can do for others or only can do for yourself, but it does let me in to know probably how you were parented and if your parents created the I do everything for you and never for myself, or I did everything for myself and never for you.

That's probably the template we're working from. Mm-hmm. So if you never knew who you were as a self, [00:18:00] doing self-exploration, doing internal family systems, parts work as a type of therapy, um, Richard Schwartz founded it, so he's written, authored a couple of books that can be very helpful. No bad parts.

You're the one you've been waiting for. You could read more about like healing the inner child if you had a tough childhood. And that's why parenting feels easy to immerse yourself in because you're essentially reparenting yourself, which we all are. But some parents take it to like. An extra deep level, and I'm like, that's not your stuff.

Like that's, that's their stuff. You gotta let them have their own autonomy. They will eventually, the goal in securely attached parenting and not losing the identity and motherhood is that I won't wake up. I already might wake up at the end of my kids launching for college and look at my spouse and go, who the hell are you?

I don't know you. That might happen, but I don't wanna look in the mirror and go, who the hell are you? I have full control over that. It's a two-way street with a spouse. I don't have full control over that. I do have full control over me knowing myself and not losing touch with that [00:19:00] journey. So I know I can wake up year after year.

Wow. I didn't know that about myself. I'm gonna try this new hobby. I'm gonna do this and, and not letting go of, yes, I still have a life, but my kid still needs me. There's that balance. Yeah. And, and, and how attuned can I be to their vocalizations if they're like, no, I'm good. I wanna go spend. The weekend at a friend's house, or I wanna go to the sleepaway camp if it's safe and you checked all the health boxes, let them don't, don't center it around.

Well, what am I gonna do if you're away at camp for a week? Mm-hmm. That's not their problem. That is not something to put on your kids. That's a youth thing. Yeah, and what I'm hearing and love like this picture that I am envisioning with all this is like as they grow, right, you've got this kindergartner who need you or those early years who really, really need you, but then there's like little lights.

I like to call them lights at the end of the tunnel. They're little lights that, yeah, do open up a lot of space. So as they grow we should have a different mindset shift as like [00:20:00] I can grow too. I can see what I enjoy too, as my kid decides to. Go try some dance classes or take up the base, right? I can also have that space to say, Hmm, what can I do?

What can I try? And it's like you're almost growing together and I, you know, together, but separate, right? You're doing your own things and I love that because. Now having older kids, It's like there is so many little spaces along the way to do that.

So there are these little growth spaces that we can really take advantage of. And I love how you put it because they're going and so can we.

The parent to be securely attached to themselves, and that's where you're re-parenting yourself and maintaining that sense of self in parenthood is, I still have a self at the end of the day that I need to care for. I can't have my entire identity be around motherhood.

And again, that goes back to who am I as a self? Do I [00:21:00] have my own hobbies? Do I have my own friendships? Do I have. A date night with my partner, if I have one. Do I have things to look forward to? That motherhood's still a very important part of my life, but I'm not letting it suffocate me or eclipse me where I'm left with no sense of self because they will, time gets us all.

They're gonna grow up. You have to have that sense of self.

And if you're feeling that pressure, this theme of the episode of I Need to Do It All For Everyone All at once, what are you avoiding? What are you so afraid of that you can't sit and be still in this present moment? What emotion would overwhelm you? What memory would replay, like what is going on for you that you feel the need to do everything and basically audition for love.

And be so performative to never be not needed. That's codependent. Mm-hmm. We don't wanna function from a codependent place that we're happy if others are happy and we become so needed that we can't become obsolete. And I'm not saying we need to become obsolete, but ideally in parenthood we go [00:22:00] back to our own life and they're still a huge part of our life, but we're modeling for them.

They get to also have their own life. That kids will do what they see. You have to model this not losing of self in motherhood especially, and not doing it all, and let them pitch in. Let them carry the mental load. Let them do their own laundry. Let them pack their own lunch. If you wanna do it out of love and tenderness, please do so.

But if you're doing it out of, I need them to like me. Not a good vibe,

so I think there is such a good piece of just this growth together on your own path and just letting a little bit space because then you get space to figure out who it is you are. But they get space to figure out who they are. Yes. That's the best gift we can give any child we have, is to allow them the safe, explorative arena that they need to discover who they want to be, not who you want them to be, not who you wanted to be, [00:23:00] that you are now projecting on your unlived life onto them.

None of that safe health boundaries, right? I try not to use the hyperbolic always and never, but that is true of a secure attachment. I'll always be here for you, even if it's not in the literal sense. I'm always gonna be a phone call away. What do you need? How can I help you? Let's problem solve this together and, and to shift away from that self-worth.

How am I as a self if I have no clue how to be alone with my own thoughts or feelings? I don't what to do in my free time. I'm gonna keep pushing myself to do more For others. Do it for you. Go join a workout class. Don't use your kid free day to deep clean the house for the love of God.

I don't feel the need to do it for anyone else. But I can tell you when I had a partner, there was a lot more of that pressure of. Who am I as a self? Who am I as the this? And not having somebody that was helpful and having a lot of moms described, they feel like they have another adult in the house who they should be able to look to for relief, but because of those antiquated stereotypes, the relief never comes and they're still the one doing it all and [00:24:00] carrying all the mental load.

And it wasn't for lack of trying. I bought the fair play card decks. I tried to get him involved. It was just not his thing. Not together for other reasons as well. I can't tell you how much solace I have that it's not my business to try to teach another grown person how to contribute in a household. I can't tell you the amount of times I'm like, you have eyes open them and look.

Even as a therapist like you, how would you do this if I weren't living here? And then do that? And a lot of moms have to shift out of that auditioning for love that they often did in the beginning of their relationships. Let me be the perfect spouse, the perfect wife, the perfect this. If the person that you're partnered with is an under functioner, they benefit from you doing everything, it wouldn't make sense for them to go, let me take that off your plate, because their plate's clean.

So you don't wanna start this dynamic if you can help it, and if you've already started it. Shake it up and start saying, there's new rules around here. We're gonna split this equitably because I'm sick of feeling like everyone's made or the martyr that's responsible for everybody else. And [00:25:00] I have no energy when it comes time for me to be responsible for myself.

So there, barring, obviously I don't suggest divorce for everyone, uh, not saying that out of this podcast. There's ways that you can restructure your family system where you're literally not left to do it all because you're appropriately tasking other competent adults or. Competent adults in training with what to do, but the drive and the need for, I have to do it all to be loved.

That has to be tended to in therapy, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like what comes up is also, it's like, why would anyone do anything if you do it all if you are already doing it? Right? Like, if someone's making me probably like doing it all. Yeah. I just like somebody in the driver's seat. I don't wanna be in it.

I, but somebody needs to occupy it or the car's gonna crash. Hello? Somebody was always metaphorically in the driver's seat for them, so they never thought maybe I should drive. Right? Or I mean, hey, like if someone's gonna clean the house. Make me dinner, do my laundry. Well, hell yeah. Like why wouldn't I have [00:26:00] that happen?

Not even in a meat way, but Yay. That's, that sounds lovely. Let's do that. So yeah, I think the first thing, also listening to all this too, is yes, also allowing other people to do things in the time they also need, because we can, um, give. Other things to our spouses, our kids, whatever. But what happens, I think is it's not done in the time that would make me feel good, or I'm thinking they won't do it.

At the end of the day, then you start doing it. But if you do give the time and space, or at least communicate how much time you need or when will this be done, then you sometimes we'll see that those dishes do get done. It's just not in your time zone

so what are the first things that moms can start doing after listening to this podcast? If you don't already, I set the rule that the first 10 minutes, depending on the [00:27:00] day, obviously, 'cause she's still a baby, but the first 10 minutes of my day belonged to me.

And that might mean I have to wake up early for that to happen. But I don't answer emails. I don't go on my phone. I don't. I don't check the, the laundry, whatever I, I, I meditate typically, or I read part of my book or I get a quick workout in and sometimes, depending on when she wakes up, it's longer than that, but like.

Do not give the first 10 minutes of your day away to anyone else, and everybody in your household needs to follow suit. Whether they do that for yourself, what they themselves, or they respect yours, that's one of the first things they can take away. Second thing they can take away is go through your daily or weekly schedule and anything that does not bring you joy or sustenance or in fact drains you and is you doing something for others?

Needs to be reappropriated or redelegated, so cut it off entirely. If it doesn't help or give it right back to its rightful owner, that's the second step. That would be very helpful. Third step would be if you don't already have some sort of a workout [00:28:00] routine or a health fitness conscious routine. Start adding that in because your physical health is directly related to your emotional and mental health.

And that's how you can stay strong for your kids. You could include them in it. It could be a family bike ride. It doesn't mean you have to just do it solo. I love weightlifting. She's a baby. I can't bring her to the gym with me. When she was little, I'd wear her, but even that got dicey depending on the lift I was doing.

So there's a time and a place for what the fitness looks like, but definitely including that. And then I think the fourth step would be. Maintaining at least an hour a week. If you can't access therapy or you already have a therapist, add on an hour. Uh, that it's about you. Self-development, self-help, self-growth, not about parenthood.

That can be a separate hour. But can you do self-worth work, self-esteem work, identity work, parts work? Can you go on a self-development journey for your own self? And this requires you to be able to answer the question, which is so difficult for parents. To extricate that, that identity. But if I, if everything else with my [00:29:00] kids' life I knew was gonna be set and I didn't need to learn another thing about it or cater to it, what would I wanna learn about and then do that.

It could be woodworking, it could be metal, it could be horseback riding. It doesn't have to be mental health, self-development necessarily. But if I trust in the universe that everything will work out in, its be highest and best alignment for everyone without my doing, which it often does, and meddling doesn't help, what would I wanna learn about?

How would I wanna better myself? And then you can start by doing that. That would be my feedback. Ugh, I love that. And so important to give yourself the time to. Figure out what it is that you want. So yeah, you need that little space so that you can really work on you. Well, where can the listeners find you and what do you offer?

So I'm most active. I take that back. I'm trying to get more active again on Instagram, but that's typically where I'm most active. And it's my first and last name, so Talia Ola. And it'll probably be linked in the show notes. I hope. Um, that would be easy 'cause it's kind of a tough name. I wish [00:30:00] sometimes my name was like Mary Smith, like very easy to, but even the spelling might be unique.

And then I'm also on TikTok and YouTube. I have a couple of my own podcasts. I have three, but two of them aren't, doing new episodes right now, just with the season of life I'm in. So if people are more curious about certain topics, they can search for me on Spotify and they'll pop up. And then I have therapy.

If you're in the state of California, anywhere in California, if you're local to Orange County. You can come see me in person, uh, but if you're anywhere in the state of California, I can see you virtually. And then I also offer coaching on these very topics, which is not as in depth as therapy is, and it's more me telling you what to do and not do.

And here's a book of why. So you do the deep work on your own, but you come to me for more of that structure and that guidance. Um, my coaching website is talia babo.com, and then my therapy website is therapy with talia.com. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing all this amazing information and just kind of seeing [00:31:00] really what's behind, why we really wanted to do it all in the first place was really helpful.

I'm so glad. Thank you for having me. . Thank you for listening to this episode. It was so nice to talk to Talia. And if you wanna see what she has to offer, just click on the link in the show notes.

And until next week, keep carving out time for yourself and keep putting yourself on top of your to-do list. I.