Keeping Lymphatic Health in Mind: Simple Steps for Everyday Well-Being with Sally Lewien

Welcome to the Real Life Momz podcast, where we put ourselves on the top of our to-do list. I am here today with Sally Lewien. She is a lymphatic specialist, and she is here to help us learn about what our lymphatic system is, how it can help us, and what we can do to keep ourselves healthy.

So, hi Sally. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thanks for having me. It's so great to be here. Well, I am excited about this because I do believe in lymphatic work, but I don't really know how to explain it. So I thought maybe we can just start off with that, like what is our lymphatic system and why is it so important to us?

Yeah, it's definitely the buzzword these days, right? There's a lot of people talking about lymphatic work all of a sudden, which I'm super happy about 'cause mm-hmm. I'm biased, it's my specialty, so obviously that makes me happy. But the system itself is actually pretty simple. And that's why I love to use it as a [00:01:00] self-care technique and teach other people how to treat themselves with it.

It's often something that seems very scientific because there's not a lot of conversation around it. But it's very simple. If you think about basically fluid filling and then emptying, filling and emptying throughout all these different cavities of your body. And we're specifically talking about these little nodes, right?

And the vessels that push everything around the body. But from a layman's perspective, I like to talk to my clients about it in like a canal system. So one area of the canal drains and then it allows the next area to drain into that space. Then that drains and it allows the next area to drain into that space.

And that's really important to know about the lymphatic system because that's its big difference to the cardiovascular system, the blood, how the blood moves around our body. Is pushed by a giant [00:02:00] pump. The heart. Well, the lymphatic system doesn't have that giant pump, so it moves with different. In different ways.

It moves partially how I just described, and that's actually like a vacuum, a pressure system that works in the body where the fluid can actually be sucked out of certain, like a vacuum sucked out of certain areas of the body, um, just by clearing the previous section. So it has somewhere to move into.

And. The little nodes all around the body. We have hundreds and hundreds of them, and they do send, tend to sit in certain collections. You have more in your neck, you have more in your armpits, more in your belly, more in your groin, behind your knees. Most people are know kind of those spaces where the collections are, but all of those move as a series.

And so one piece affects the next, and that is [00:03:00] actually the power of the lymphatic system and what makes it so easy. So I'll give you a, I'll give you a an example of that. We're coming into that time of the year where a lot of people are having colds and sniffles and sinus congestion, and it's with the kids.

And the kids are back in school, blah, blah, blah. Our all moms know about that. Mm-hmm. Um, and if you have any kind of congestion in your head. The first place you have to move your lymph is in your chest, right? Like that would be kind of counter, like, you may not get there without that knowledge of understanding what you're doing, but if you use, like, I like to use a vibration tool and that's what I.

Teach in my classes. Most people get this vibration tool and it's really easy to use and simple, and we just follow a map. But if you can put things in your chest and in your armpits and your upper back, you're clearing out all of those path passageways there. The lymphatic path is pathways, [00:04:00] and then the head, the fluid that's up here in the head, that's causing the pressure, that's causing the discomfort.

Has somewhere to go. Right? And you don't even have to do anything with it. You literally create space down here and it'll just suck outta your head, right? Like, what's more easy than that? Um, but if you didn't know to put, you know, vibration down here and treat your lymphatic pathways in your armpits. But it's it it, that's what I mean.

It's super simple like that, but you just need to know a few little things. And the main thing is the direction of flow. Mm-hmm. Like I just explained there, your head won't move unless you get stuff outta your chest. So the other big one that people run into with that, that is a good example of how the system works, is when you have inflammation in your legs.

And we see that, especially with older people, but if [00:05:00] you can't get the fluid to move out of your legs, you've gotta clear it outta your belly first. What? I wouldn't have picked that one. Yeah. Right. So I've actually helped people, the countries in other states virtually. Like we have conversations over the phone.

They tell me a story and I just go, oh, okay. So have you ever had a C-section? You can't drain stuff outta your legs. You've had cancer, your groin is on fire, like your nodes are going crazy. We can't get stuff to move and nobody can figure it out. Did you have a C-section by chance at some point in your mother career?

Yeah, I did 30 years ago. Okay. Well that is why your nodes are overloaded in your groin and why the fluid can't move outta your legs because this scar tissue. In your belly. And scar tissue is one of the number one things that we see that slows down the lymphatic system. It can't travel through scar tissue.

It can get through lots of other things. [00:06:00] Get around. It will get around scar tissue, your body will find a way around it. Um, but as a practitioner, I like to lessen scar tissue so there's a easier path through for the lymphatic system. And that can be done simply at home with this vibration tool, right?

Mm-hmm. Again, it's, it's an easy system to treat. You just have to understand the order in which to treat it. Um, and then you're not backwash. On yourself. But all this is important also because the lymphatic system is your immune system. It's a huge, huge component of your immune system. And so whenever you've got either a virus or a bacteria, something coming into the body or an injury that's happened to the body, the lymphatic system is what comes and helps to heal.

Which means you've gotta have that flow. If the flow's not happening and the lymph can't get where it needs to go, and it al also [00:07:00] can't take out the garbage that it takes out. 'cause that's a big piece of its job also is detoxing the body. So if that's not happening. We can get like a backwash situation and and the body starts to ping off all kinds of weird symptoms.

And I can't even give you that list because it's way too long. Yeah. So, yeah. Wow. Okay. This is, I mean, it's so important, yet nobody talks about. This system, right? You never go to the doctor and be like, okay your lymphatics seem to need some work, right? Mm-hmm. Um, well first of all, I have to backtrack a little bit 'cause I just wanna clarify.

Mm-hmm. So what is the fluid, what fluid are we actually talking about in this system? Well, yeah, that's a really good question. 'cause it kind of changes throughout the system, but that's a little science technical style. Yeah. So really we just think about it as, um. The, the fluid that's not blood [00:08:00] in the system.

Okay. You know, the more of the clear fluid that comes into the space, it's carrying, uh, white blood cells, it's carrying lymphocytes, white blood cells that that are gonna come in and fight. Any of the viruses, the bacteria, but it can hang out in all the, in what we call interstitial spaces. Mm-hmm. Also, which basically means it's not just in these little vessels and these little nodes, it's everywhere in the body, all the places where there is nothing else.

This fluid hangs out and the fluid itself is peculiar, like we call it fluid. That's the easiest word to use for it, but it's actually quite viscous. It's quite thick. And that's important to know also. And so at its thinnest point when lymph is super healthy it'll be a little bit thicker than.[00:09:00]

A little bit thicker than blood. But it can get at its dysfunctional state when it's congested with toxins, when it's not moving, where it's just stagnant and stuck in a place because there's nothing to get it to go, there's no pump happening around it. And that's movement. If you're sitting on your butt, that will happen.

That can get us thick as cottage cheese. Wow. So when we look at people who have had this fluid in place for a long period of time, um, it starts to change the tissue, it starts to look different. Um, but yeah, that's, it can go and it, and the. Know, the, the fluid flows around the, the, the body. It fills the nodes and then it dumps into the heart.

Um, and in the heart it kind of, that's the scientific piece. Is it, it joins with the plasma of the body. Um, so it does actually go back into the blood supply. Um, and that's how, you know, it moves through the liver [00:10:00] spaces and it, it gets out of the body and, so there is a very really, really.

Close connection between the cardiovascular system and the lymphatic system. And there's also a really close connection between those two and the nervous system. Mm-hmm. And so if any of that gets disrupted, say you, you know, you've got a cardiovascular issue or you've had to have a surgery on the veins in your legs or something like that, your lymphatic system is gonna be affected.

And those people definitely need help. Those people definitely should be going to see a lymphatic specialist on a regular basis because once the system slows down it won't it, I don't wanna sit and make this sound scary, but it can go in a, in a really negative direction. So the longer lymphatic.

Fluid stays in contact with soft tissue. Um, it, it starts to irritate. The lymphatic [00:11:00] fluid is full of a lot of protein and our soft tissue doesn't like being in contact with pro protein. It's an irritant, makes it, uh, drives inflammation, makes the tissue tender and sore can even go as far as to start developing fibroids.

You know, like, and a, and then there's a, there's a big connection with the endocrine system. Estrogen, for example. Hello Moms. Yeah. Listen to me when I say this. Estrogen likes to travel in lymphatic fluid, so the number one way you take care of your breast tissue is you do self lymphatic drainage.

Regularly, you move the lymphatic fluid away from the breast tissue so that it's not tender and sore, so it doesn't develop fibroids, so it's not lumpy and bumpy when you lay down on it at night, especially. I'm a 51-year-old mom who is now going through HRT and perimenopause, [00:12:00] and it has been hugely important for my own health during that time to be aware of my lymphatics because the HRT that I've been on the hormones has been making everything different, feel different, more tender in my body.

And so as soon as I can move the lymphatic fluid out of those spaces, everything calms down and feels better. So you have the power. It's hugely powerful, this technique. And that's the piece that I really like to coach my patients around. Uh, and I work with women specifically, a lot of women recovering from.

Cancer, breast cancer, mastectomies, like you name it, all kinds of interesting stuff. Um, but they're all doing lymphatic drainage. They're all working on their own tissue. Um, and they understand that is how they take their power back. Right, like it's, I feel really strongly that [00:13:00] my clients learn to do this for themselves because then they're taking care of themselves.

I can teach them, I can facilitate, I can be the person when the wheels come off and they need somewhere to go. Absolutely. I love being that person, but I don't wanna be the person that they're addicted to for care. I feel like that's enabling my patients. I don't operate like that. I like to educate my people, open the pathways, deal with the scar tissue, we deal with the big stuff.

Then they go home and they learn how to do this themselves. Um, and I thoroughly, thoroughly believe, and I will go to my grave saying this, that every single woman needs, every, every single person needs to be doing lymphatic work. Mm-hmm. Um. But I'm biased 'cause I'm a woman. Um, so I stick up for our parte, um, and say that the breast tissue is, you know, a place where we, we don't get a lot of [00:14:00] help sometimes in care of it.

And this is a huge thing that you can do to take your power back. So if you're somebody who's had, for example, scans. You've done a bunch of scans and every time you're going for a scan, they tell you you've gotta go back and have another one, and you're getting deeper and deeper in debt. And insurance is a pain in the butt because it doesn't wanna pay for DI diagnostic stuff.

You will get a much, much better image if you do lymphatic drainage before you go in fee scan, because a big piece of what they're seen on the scan is fluid. And fluid is an indicator that there's something there that should not be there. Again, the lymphatic system comes into play to fight off the enemy.

Yeah. That can be the big C That can be all sorts of different things. It can be a, a tear in your tissue like something you're not even aware of. But if there's a swelling, if there's fluid accumulation, the [00:15:00] lymphatic system is involved. And you need to pay attention. Yeah. Okay. Well this just brings me into our next question really because we're in October, which is Breast Cancer Awareness Month.

Right? Everyone should be mammogram. I have mine. And. Can you teach us maybe as moms do go and are getting ready to go to their mammogram, is there some simple things that they can do before going or Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Can you teach us that? Yeah, yeah. Um, I can show you mane. And then, like I mentioned earlier, the vibration tool, like we can link to it from the podcast, it's not expensive.

A little thing that you pick up, you know, online just makes the whole process easier. But like I said previously, the number one thing is the order, the direction. So with the lymphatic work, you always start at the, what we call the terminus, which is where the, which are the master ports. And they're underneath the [00:16:00] clavicles.

You can do that in lots of ways. You can just tap, you can rub your, your, what you're doing with the lymphatic, uh, manual lymphatic work is you're replicating our movement. So normally we're moving, we move all day long, and my tissue is constantly moving in this place, which is moving my lymphatics.

But when I sit at a computer like this for hours and hours a day, and my necks down in my shoulders and my shoulders rounded like this, you're cutting off your entire lymphatic. That's not good for your breast tissue to start with, right? So posture number one, posture sitting up tall, opening up the space of our body, taking deep breaths, letting your diaphragm drop down, creating some space in this thoracic cavity, right?

Number one makes you feel better. Then we're just gonna come in to the clavicle space, if you can see here. And all it is you [00:17:00] literally just stretching the skin. That's all you have to do in lymphatic work is just slightly stretch the skin. If you've had massage and you've gone in and people have done deeper work and they've moved your tissue and all that stuff.

Wonderful. Amazing. I love massages. That's not lymphatic work, right? Um, it can help the lymphatics for sure, but that's not lymphatic work. So we're just gonna, and above the clavicle here it comes this way. If you're doing it here on your neck, you can just put a hand like this, a soft hand and just pull down from the back of the ear and you're moving in kind of a pumping action.

Mm-hmm. And the pump is slower than the heartbeat. So if you would say, I would say usually five to 10 seconds I hold. And you can feel, and I'm not pushing [00:18:00] down into the tissue, but I've just got a sticky hand, no lotion, nothing needed. In fact, a little moisture on your tissue and a little moisture on your tissue is perfect because it gives a little bit of that tacky, which is what you want.

You wanna stick to the tissue so you can just. Pull it just slightly. It's just a glide. You're not going over the tissue, you're sticking into it and just pulling it just slightly, but it was super gentle. And so we start here, hold, and then pump again, and pump again. I can already feel it. It's moving and you start to feel like fluid starting to move the need to swallow.

You'll have the need to swallow, and that's fluid moving down from this space. And the beauty of this is when you do it regularly, your body recognizes it and goes, oh, I know what's happening. We'll get ready. You know, here we go. So the more you do it, the less. Work it is. So once you've done this on [00:19:00] both sides and you take your time, I, you know, gravity can be helpful.

So if you're sitting up, that's nice. Um, but you can do it laying in bed. A lot of my people do this right before they go to sleep. Then from here we can do kind of a. Pull up and roll just to move the tissue. I'm, I'm really just wanting to move the tissue underneath the clavicle now. And this goes in two directions, so close to the clavicle here.

It can come into the sternum, the further out towards the armpit, it'll go out to the armpit. So if you wanna do that amount of detail in here, wonderful. If not, just give it some circles, make some tissue move, make your boob bounce, right? Like everything needs to be moving. Then we come down into the armpit and we're just going to do the same thing, a really big, soft hand.

No curled fingers, no pointy fingers. Were not pushing [00:20:00] into the body at all. Lymph nodes are very, very delicate and lymphatic vessels are very delicate. When I learned lymphatic drainage, we were told you use and nickel of pressure. Now that for most people is impossible. Um, and that's why don't teach that.

I just say just a sticky hand and just stay on the top. You're not going down into deeper pressure. You're just moving the skin. That's your focus is move the skin. So we are here in the armpit and we're moving everything and we're just getting it all going. But the direction that we're trying to bring the tissue and ultimately the fluid is up back up to the terminus.

Mm-hmm. Right. So we're coming back up this way. So I don't have a lot of breast tissue. But if you were a lady who did have a lot of breast tissue, it might be easier to lay on your side, let the breast tissue move away from your body, and then you're not having to deal with [00:21:00] that tissue. You can just focus on your armpit, right?

Mm-hmm. There's lots of different, there's not a. If it's not a fixed box way of doing this, right? Like it's what is comfortable. And the big, big rule with all my work always is it should feel comfortable, it should feel good, and if it doesn't, don't do it. Okay. That's it. Mm-hmm. Because we're working with nervous system, and if your nervous system doesn't like what you're doing, your lymphatic system will lock down and it won't move.

Okay. So you gotta be happy. You gotta be in a good space. It's gotta feel good. You gotta be like, oh yeah, man, this feels good. I gotta do this again tomorrow. That's what we're going for. Not this. Oh, yeah. Oh no, that's so, oh no. I don't like that. You're pushing too deep. You're focused too.

Ing your fingers. You're not using a broad tool. Your nervous system likes a broad tool, right? Your breast likes a broad tool. Doesn't like pokey fingers going in there, so just get used [00:22:00] to, you know, like moving your breast tissue. The sternum area should move. You should be able to go all the way down to that solar plexus space and everything should move.

Breast care is a huge part of my practice. You know, I, I could go into that if you want me to go into that, but, um, but. I would say from a really basic standpoint to get you through the winter work, the termin terminus here, keep the skin moving around the clavicles, pull it down from the back of the ear.

This space here is the largest lymph node in the upper body. Mm-hmm. Right here behind the ear takes everything from the, the head, everything. Come down here, work these sections. Get into your armpits work. These sections always do both sides. Work all the way down your sternum. Get your tissue to move, come underneath your [00:23:00] breast tissue into those pockets, and get that to move.

And then all of a sudden, your respiratory system is happier. Your digestion is happier, your diaphragm is happier. All that is now loose because there's not the pressure of excess fluid. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. We mentioned earlier colds. Yeah. The biggest thing that you're feeling here when you have that headache or that pressure in your face is fluid.

Get the fluid out. Get the fluid to move. Come down here. Your kids are sick, your kids are home. Okay. So we have to, we have to talk contraindications for a second. Yes, please. Yep. So the, the main contraindication. With lymphatic work is you don't ever do it when you've got a fever, right?

You don't really ever do it when you're feeling flawed, right? Like if you're, if you're coming up the hill and you're like, oh man, something's getting me and I've got [00:24:00] a presentation I gotta give on Friday, how the heck am I gonna get there? You do lymphatic work. And you do it all the time because you are gonna push it through the system faster, and there's a really good chance that it won't hit as hard and you'll be able to get over it faster if you are a healthy person, right?

If you've got issues and things are moving slow, then you are going to speed it up and it might hit big. But then you'll get past it faster on the other side. So what we're doing when we move fluid around the body is we're asking for the maximum that your body can give you, the maximum healing it can bring forward for you in that moment.

We don't do that when the body's already struggling. When the body's got a fever, it's maxed out. It's giving you everything it can possibly give you. You don't ask for more. And that's what we're doing when we do lymphatic work. So I can get clients come in we'll do [00:25:00] a treatment. I always work on people's livers.

Uh, one of my clients calls it being delivered. I have to figure out how to work that into my marketing. I've not done that yet. Um, but whenever you stir things up from the liver, all your blood in your body travels through your liver and is cleaned there. So if I drain your liver. There's a good chance that we're gonna stir something up that came out of your blood, but if your liver is stagnant and it needs some help, that's essential.

Mm-hmm. To so many areas of your health and wellness. Yeah. Okay. All right. And I just wanna circle back for a second. So for the women that do wanna do this breast work, is it daily or is it just as needed? Or they're going for something and they wanna just make sure that their mammograms look as best they can?

What, how often do you recommend. Uh, good question. Yeah. I mean, what I normally tell my people is, is as a [00:26:00] maintenance lymphatic work, we do it every day. Okay? Yep. I like my people to do it at the end of the day because they're gonna go horizontal for hopefully eight hours at least, right? Mm-hmm. And when you're not moving and you're horizontal, your fluids are not moving as much.

When we're up moving around, the lymph moves a lot better. Um, but if you've got something that you're dealing with, if there's a real thing that you're focusing on, you may need to do it a few times a day. And I say that right, you're a practitioner too. You probably give homework to people all the time.

I do. I'm a, I'm a posture specialist as well, so I work with the spine, so always giving people exercises and I tell 'em, do it every half an hour, because if I tell you to do it every half an hour, you might get in twice a day. If I told you to do it once a day, you might do it once a week. Yeah. So as practitioners, we know that.

But, um, but yeah, I would love people to do it every day. And if you're doing it every day for a month, maybe you can back off to three times [00:27:00] a week when your system is healthy and it's moving. Right. Yeah. Um, and in different seasons of the year, in different seasons of our life and our health, we need it more yeah, yeah, yeah. But definitely before scans, definitely before scans, 24 hours before scans. If you can get in to see a specialist that's awesome. But if you are doing it yourself and you've been doing it consistently for a while, you, your body will clear out. There won't be that excess. That's what you're doing by doing it daily.

Yeah. Yeah. And now I'm also hearing that there are other things that help move our lymphatic system. So what are some other things that just besides the actual manual stuff, can help keep our lymphatics healthy? Oh, that's a whole nother podcast. Um, there's lots of things in my space where I work, we use red lights.

Um, we use acoustic vibration. Um, [00:28:00] we use regular vibrations, so we have the vibration plates. A lot of people liking to get the vibration plates that they can stand on and exercise on and stuff like that. So vibration is a really great tool in any way. It shows up and that's also movement, right? Like when we're up. Moving our bodies. That's what we're doing is we're creating vibration inside. And I would just say with that because this is a question I get asked a lot, um, vibration is not the same as a massage gun. Please don't use a massage gun. Like a, what did they call it? Yeah. The or whatever.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, please don't use that on your lymphatics. Oh, interesting. That is not vibration. That is percussion. And here's how we describe the difference in the two. If I put my hand on your shoulder and I just shook you like that real gentle eye, your body would probably enjoy it and it probably wouldn't bother.

And I could do it for quite some [00:29:00] time. And that's because every cell in your body is vibrating. Your body knows vibration. It's actually an energy source. But if I went like this. To you for about 10 minutes, your body get really not happy, right? Mm-hmm. That's percussion. So it's a completely different sensory stimulus, and so the body responds differently to it.

So if you're treating your lymphatic system, please use vibration. Don't use percussion. It's a very different thing. But yeah, it there's lots of ways of doing it. Vibration plates. Uh, the little rebounders trampolines. People really like that. Please make sure your balance is good when you're doing those things.

Uh, uh, vestibular balance issues clear up when you're doing lymphatic work also 'cause it can be due to neuroinflammation. Yeah. Lots of different things. Even getting on a bicycle, just anything that you're doing to move your body right. Dancing. Dancing [00:30:00] is awesome for your emphatic system.

But yeah, those are, those are the main ones. Oh, and the other thing that's also we could go into herbs. There's a bunch of different herbs that are really good for helping things to move, but you can do your own research on that. And water being in water. So the scientific basis of fluid in our body comes down to something called hydrostatic pressure, right?

So, and this is gonna take people back to biology class or chemistry class, whatever, in high school. But when the pressure is greater on the outside of your skin, on the outside of your. Body, the fluids inside that are at a lower pressure will move around super easy when you're out of water. The air pressure against your skin is gr, is greater.

So you know, you is, is sorry, is less. So you're not gonna have the same amount of movement, but you put yourself in a pool. [00:31:00] And that pressure on the outside from the water, which is gentle and the body likes it, is greater than the pressure inside the body. So everything will move. So if I have an elderly client that is really struggling to move, the first thing I tell 'em to do is go get in a pool.

Mm-hmm. Right? And that's gonna be really great, especially if they can do some movement while they're in the pool. They feel better, their lymph moves easier, their heart is happier. Yeah, that's a really good tool too. Yeah. So interesting. All right, well, you have so much information. What is one thing you want the listeners to start doing today, if anything?

Have awareness around the inflammation pieces of your body. Um, don't ignore 'em. The big thing that I say to people is you should be able to touch your body anywhere. And feel comfortable, not be, you know, not, not have pain. So if you, if you can't get into places like your [00:32:00] ballet and your groin and your armpits and places like this without there being pain, you please, please deal with it.

Please go see somebody, get on a virtual call with me. Do something that can start that system moving because, um. I'll just leave you with this, which is a really exciting piece of research that just came across, actually was sent to be my, by my chiropractor a couple of weeks ago. There's a new study came out of a university in the UK that says that they have found, and I almost am crying when I tell you this.

This is so pivotal to lymphatics and especially women's health for the future. Lymph nodes produce T cells. Now for anybody that's had any kiss with cancer or knows anybody that's, that's touched that a T-cell is what your body makes to fight cancer cells. So this is coming [00:33:00] forward because they disrupt lymph nodes a lot during surgery.

They take 'em out, they throw 'em away. They don't think the valuable. Now we know inside a lymph node it actually produces T cells so they can fight cancer themselves. So please take care of your lymphatic system. So critically important, so powerful, empowering to the patient. And the nervous system work that I do is there, it's connected to that, right?

So it to lift yourself up, to find you power again, to get beyond the pain, to get beyond the confusion that I can't find the help. Try your lymphatic system. You might be surprised. Yeah, I love this. I mean, it, I knew about it, but not this much. And it's really just opened my eyes to everything. So where can the listeners find you and what do you offer?

You can find me, um, at Fit Back Systems. It's a, a, a different spelling, [00:34:00] F-I-T-B-A-K, no C in Fit back, and then systems with an S. Dot com. That's my website. You can also find me through my name, sally levine.com. Goes there too. Again, just spell the last name right. Um, my passion is education, so I am a hands-on practitioner.

If you are here locally and you need help, please come and see me. I'm in Gumbar, Colorado. But I work virtually with people. I work with people all over the world. Just like you've experienced here today, we can cover a lot of the basics of lymphatics. I can teach you. I have an online. Class four self care.

Um, so there's lots of ways that we can work together and we can help you through this process. Um, and I always start with a phone conversation, so there's no commitment upfront. Let's get on the phone. Let's have a, a chat. See if I can be of help to you. I'm a hundred percent honest. I'm one of those people.

I literally can't lie to people. So if I don't [00:35:00] think I can help you, I'll tell you, I'll send you somewhere else. I know lots of great practitioners. But, um, but yeah, that, that would be the first place to start. Um, have your own awareness. Do your work first to, to to understand your body a little bit. But I can help you with that too. And actually next year, for those people who are local, I'm gonna start teaching once a month in Gumbar SLD, self lymphatic drainage. And some classes will have a an emphasis on breast and some will have an emphasis on full body. So, um, that's there, that's available, and I'm here to help.

Thank you so much. Thanks for sharing all your expertise. You're welcome. Above and beyond welcome. And yeah, we really appreciate you being here. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode. Sally gave us so much amazing information that honestly I had never heard about.

If you wanna connect with Sally, just click on the [00:36:00] link in the show notes, and until next week, keep carving out time for yourself and keep putting yourself on top of your to-do list.