From Reactive to Intentional: Building a Healthier Relationship with Our Phones with Ruby Ryba

Welcome to the Real Life Momz podcast, where we put ourselves at the top of our to-do list. I'm Lisa Foster, your host, and today I'm here with fellow mom, screen time strategist, author, and coach Ruby Ryba. And we are talking about digital wellness for ourselves and shifting from reactive phone use to more intentional use.

So, hi Ruby, welcome to the show. Hey Lisa. Thanks so much for having me this evening. Yeah, well, I am so excited about this conversation because I do think as a parent, we tend to look at our kids' screen use and really focus on that, but it all starts with ourselves, right? And there are definitely things that we can be doing.

That will help how we feel about screens for ourselves and those around us. So I'm excited about this. So the first question I want to ask you is, how do you actually define a healthy relationship with your phone? Great question. I think it really depends on the person and. [00:01:00] And there's no specific metric, like a number of minutes you spend or how many apps you're on.

It really has to do with how you feel. Is there cognitive dissonance between your behavior and your values, or do you feel aligned with how you're using your phone use? So if you feel like the phone is taking up too much of your life, of your attention. Then you probably need a shift. Um, a good metric that I use is how comfortable would you feel leaving the house for half an hour without the phone?

Mm. If that feels really anxiety inducing, then it's something to think about. Um, you can have all sorts of feelings thinking about that, you know, and so you. My, for me personally, my goal is to go almost towards apathy towards my phone because our phones are tools and they're wonderful tools, but if you were look to look at like a hammer or a screwdriver, you wouldn't be like, oh my God, I can't leave the [00:02:00] house without my screwdriver.

It's useful, but it doesn't mean that you need it. And so that, that's where I would look at is kind of if you have any emotional stickiness when it comes to your phone. Wow. I think there's a lot of emotional stickiness. I, for one, I can detach from my phone. In fact, I went somewhere and left my phone and I didn't even know until I was on my way home and go, oh my goodness, where's my phone?

I left it at a restaurant, so I feel like I can detach and not know it's there. Mm-hmm. But you're right, it's like tools for. Everything, like my work is on my phone because I have my scheduling system. I pay through my phone. Right. I have my calendar on my phone. Um, there's just so many things that are just on my phone on my day to day that it, it does become this crutch that I need.

Everyone's phone number. Who remembers a phone number, right? Yeah. Like I couldn't get in touch with anyone if I didn't have my phone. But it's funny, I like the. The thought process [00:03:00] is if, like, can you leave your phone and not feel this anxiety? And I think a lot of us are gonna say no, actually. Yeah. And I look around my house, I know my husband.

Ooh, no way. You know? But you also said like, if it doesn't feel like a problem, like if it, it feels like it's aligning with you. Mm-hmm. I think he would say it aligns with him. He's like, I do everything for my own. Not a problem. Right. But there are other people also around, right? That are, it depends on the person.

Yeah. It depends on what phase you're of life you're in. Um, I think the same with my husband. He has his phones plural with him a lot because he has personal on work and I mean, he, he can check out when he, he needs to or wants to, but a lot of his life is on his phone as it is for all of us, you know? And so, yeah, it depends, and I spend more time with the kids than he does, and so.

I might be thinking a little bit more about modeling than he does. And that's not bad. It's [00:04:00] just different, you know? So we all have different goals with our phone use, and that's all, that all needs to be taken into consideration. And that's why I realized I needed to write a whole book about it because it just, it's really nuanced because our phones are so personalized.

So true. I love that word that they are personalized, so how we use them, and some of us need them more than others, right? Totally. Some of us day-to-day stuff. Is really on the, on their phone and others, they don't need their phone for things. So yeah, that is a really good point. I do find though, um, if I'm talking to somebody and they happen to either be holding their phone and Me too, me too.

I do this too. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. Um. And all of a sudden they, you know, it's like you ask a question, it's like, oh, I wanna look that up. Right? And all of a sudden the conversation then changes to the phone. Or even your kid might ask you something and you're like checking your phone for a schedule or calendar like it, all of a sudden, as the person talking feels.[00:05:00]

Almost like they're not being heard anymore. That's how I feel. If someone's like looking, even if it's something we're talking about and they're looking it up, I'm like, hello right here. A hundred percent yes. Yeah, it's um, that reminds me a little bit of a study that was done where they took family and friend groups that were going out to eat and they randomly separate, cut them in half, and for half the group they told them, eat dinner.

Talk to each other, whatever, um, but don't have your phones on the table. And for the other group, they said like. Have your phone face down on the table. And they weren't told, you know, to use the phone or not use the phone or anything, but just some people had to keep the phone out of sight. And some people kept them on the table.

And then after it was done, they asked, um, the participants a series of questions like, how much did you enjoy the meal? Um, you know, how, how interested were you in the conversation? How fun was it, et cetera. And, um, people had a better experience when the phones were not on the [00:06:00] table. And so that's interesting, right?

'cause why does just the, having the phone there make you have a worse experience? And the answer is this phenomenon called counterfactual thinking, where you are thinking about possibilities of things that are happening, even if they are not actually happening. So the phone is this limitless.

Possibilities device where you could be getting an exciting Instagram comment or you could be getting a job offer in your email. Anything could be happening. It doesn't mean that it is, but just the fact that we know that something could be. Crazy on there, even though usually it's not the case and we're just scrolling and nothing's there makes us devalue what's actually in front of us.

Um, so that, that's really interesting and it's a really important reminder that just because we're tempted by it, the thing that we're tempted by doesn't actually exist. So another example of counterfactual thinking that might be more relatable is, um, if you [00:07:00] ask someone, would you rather miss a flight by five minutes or 30 minutes?

People usually will say, I'd rather miss it by 30 minutes, because it's so painful when you miss it by just five minutes and you feel like you could have been on there. And that's counterfactual thinking again because you're thinking about the possibility of. Making the flight, even though either way five minute or 30 minutes, you're not making that flight, but you're just imagining it.

Yeah. So that I found was really fascinating about phones. Is that this possibility of Yeah, I can totally see that. 'cause even if it's as simple as, or I don't even know if it, it starts to become a habit of like wanting to check it, you know, it's like it's right there and it's like, oh, did I get a text or is someone email?

I'm not waiting for anything, but it's like this draw that, oh my God, I have to check it. So common. I mean, the phone's designed that way, so yeah. It's addictive. Mm-hmm. So as parents though, right? Mm-hmm. We wanna know, we wanna be reachable, right? Yes. I feel like phones make me feel [00:08:00] like I'm on demand. Yes.

More than reachable. However, we wanna be reachable. So how do you. Still be reachable, but kind of detach from your phone? Mm-hmm. No, that's a great question. Um, in all of my personal experimentation, there have been times where I haven't been near my phone enough and I would miss calls, you know, so there, there is of course, the, the op, you can swing the opposite way.

And to that, I would, um, highly recommend. Spending a little bit time of time with phone configuration. So thinking about what, what apps do we even want to allow to give you notifications? For example, we get so many notifications from random apps that we do not need, and every time you pick up your phone and that's gonna break whatever you're doing.

So there's notifications, um, and then there's also focus modes. So for focus modes, you can set up focus modes on your phone to go off automatically, or you can have them so that. You choose? Um, I recommend automatically because then you're al [00:09:00] always gonna have something. So around the clock, my phone is set to different focus modes.

At nighttime, it's on sleep. When I'm usually at my desk, it's on work. And then I have, um. I also have nanny mode. That one I put on myself. But if my husband and I go out to dinner and I want the nanny to be able to call me, but I don't care about any other notifications, only hers will get through. So be being really thoughtful about what are the different parts of my life, work, family, leisure, whatever.

And, or maybe times like, you know, maybe business hours you want. Phone calls to come in because you might get calls from doctors and stuff. Like, that's one of the things that I allow during my work hours is I allow all phone calls. Um, I think that's it. That's it Actually, I have all phone calls and my husband and my kids, my kids' schools would just call me.

Yeah. So it's just all phone calls and my husband for work hours. Um, and then nothing else is gonna contact you. And so you. You're not gonna be as tempted because you might still be [00:10:00] tempted at first because it's just muscle memory. But then you can, you can wean yourself off of that. And then you might ask me, well, when do you check the things that you do wanna check?

Like email, Instagram, whatever for that. I recommend batching. So think about how many times in a day do you actually need to check your email or do you actually need to check your social medias and then try to hold yourself to that. Um, it might help to uninstall the apps on your phone if something like email, maybe you can just check it twice a day.

On your computer, maybe you need to be able to send out emails on your phone. Um, probably is gonna require some experimentation. And then when it comes to holding yourself to those, um, number of times per day, especially for more addictive apps like socials, I recommend distraction blockers. So there are lots of different distraction blockers on the market.

I really like clear space. It basically. Um, blocks you out of the app [00:11:00] and you decide how many times you want to use it. So I've chosen like three times for Instagram. So I can use Instagram for three times per day. And when I tap on it, it basically increases what's called latency by asking me a number of times like, do you really wanna open it, et cetera.

And like sometimes at that point you're like, okay, whatever. Like I actually. Like, I just wanted, like, it was just like, at this point now, I don't like, no, whatever. Yeah. It's like, it's like when I get called out like that, fine. I don't actually need to open it. But, um, and then when you say yes, then it also asks you, okay, well how long do you wanna use the app?

And you have to choose 1, 3, 5, or 10 minutes. It's customizable. You can change it. Then you try, do you, you put in the number of minutes that you want and then it'll give you a one minute warning and then just close you out. So, um. I really focus on designing your environment to work for you. I don't believe that we need to be putting so much willpower into this.

Um, and even if we had [00:12:00] like amazing willpower and it didn't bother us to like get notification after notification and say no to it, it's also just so intrusive and disruptive to get these pings and dings all the time. So I think just thinking about. What do I want from my phone? Remember the phone should serve me not the other way around.

Mm. And then make it do that. Like set it up that way, you know? Yeah. I mean, I don't even think about using like Focus. That was the first time I've ever heard of focus mode. I was like, wow, that's impressive. I put mine on silent most of my day and I actually forget to put it. To turn the silent off. Right.

Um, mostly because I work with clients and the, you know, you can't have your phone ringing during that time. Right. Um, so that, that is helpful. But Yeah. But I can see still like texts or notifications come through. Yes. Right. Mm-hmm. Um. And that is true in half those notifications. I don't even [00:13:00] know what those are from, I'm just like mm-hmm.

Swiping them gone. 'cause I like a clean environment. So they're, yes. They're just like, you know, putting too much stuff in my phone. Yeah. And I'm not even reading 'em, so I should take the time just to get rid of 'em. 'cause it, it does make me anxious. Like, oh, what is that? What is that? Mm-hmm. So, and it really only takes a minute or two to just go through your notifications and click off, off, off, off.

Because. For most of them, you're not gonna be thinking, wait, do I need it, do I not? It's usually pretty obvious. And then my recommendation usually, if you're not sure, is to err on the side of less notifications. And if you're like, oh my God, I can't believe I missed that Pinterest notification, okay, fine.

Put them back on. You know? But it's unlikely, like I've really never met someone that was like, oh, I wish that I had kept that notification on most of these. No, it's not brain surgery here. Right. I mean, yeah, at the end of the day, it's just convenience. It's nothing big. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um. Speaking about brain though, what is all this input?

It's like this nonstop on demand scrolling. What is it doing to our [00:14:00] brains, to our physical, mental, emotional health? Like what's happening there? So it's relatively new, you know, the research into this. And so we don't have information in terms of long-term effects yet, but it's also pretty reasonable to make some.

Estimates. Um, and there ha there has been, um, there have been some studies. So there are so many different effects. Um, and first of all, there's sleep. So if your phone is in the bedroom with you, it can really affect your sleep. Um, even if you have it on a focus mode like sleep. Knowing that your phone is there and knowing that you can check, it can raise anxiety levels, it can decrease sleep quality.

Um, the blue light from the screen. 'cause if it's on your bedside table, you're probably looking at it right before bed. Not great. Um, there's also a phenomenon called Popcorn Brain. Um, it's not making your brain porous. That's what I first thought. I was like, this does not sound good. [00:15:00] It may, it may as well be.

Um, but with Popcorn Brain, basically with our phones, we are getting. So many notifications and sound effects and things that are going so quickly, and that's not normal, right? Like real life isn't like that. When you're having a conversation with someone, they're not like, and now a video presentation of my like trip to Hawaii.

Like they're just telling you and you have to like sit there and listen to the conversation, right? But because we're getting so used to this pop, pop, pop, pop, sound, sound effect, notification, buzz, whatever. It then actually makes regular life feel gray and hard to focus on in contrast. So a lot of people these days can't sit through a full movie, for example.

Mm-hmm. And. Not check their phone. And you've, you may have noticed that if you watch an old movie, the credits feel a lot longer because they are, because you used to sit through the credits and feel excited for the movie. But right now we all need, um, immediate gratification. We want the dopamine right away.[00:16:00]

Um, in terms of dopamine, there's also a lot of effects because dopamine is something that we need in order to. Do things right? So if you work for four hours on a project that's interesting to you, at the end of that four hours, you're gonna feel really satisfied. You're gonna have. Natural dopamine that you've just created or with exercise.

Um, but something that I didn't know until I did this research is that we wake up every morning with a fixed amount of dopamine and you can actually use it all up. And so there's slow dopamine and there's fast dopamine. And so if you, um, are using your phone and going through reels or whatever, then you are kind of using up your dopamine really quickly.

And then after that, if you do four hours of work. You're not gonna feel as satisfied. Um, so I've noticed that myself with exercise, like when I exercise in the morning, just unrelated to screens, I've noticed that when I exercise in the morning, when I have like a full tank of unused [00:17:00] dopamine, I usually feel really good after my workout versus in the evening I feel pretty good.

And I always thought it had to do with, um, just being more tired. And I'm sure that's a factor also, but I don't think I get as much of a dopamine rush because I have already used up some of my dopamine from the day. So being mindful about. How you are scheduling and living your life is also, um, something to consider.

Wow, that's amazing. I love that thought process there because Yeah, I mean, I do check my phone in the morning because it's like, oh, what happened? Like, anything happened. I went to bed at like 10, I woke up. What? I wake up early, like six, I mean mm-hmm. What has happened? Nothing. None. No. Nothing in my age group, but we're all sleeping, right?

So I'm like, huh, yeah, I think not doing that. I don't wanna use my dopamine for that. I've got other things I've got to accomplish. So, yeah, that's huge. I also wonder, um, like I feel like brains need. Time. They need quiet time. They need [00:18:00] recharge time. And it's almost like with all this information and scrolling, it's like we don't even give our brains that time to be quiet, to be creative.

How, how do you feel like that affects us too? Is like not having the recharge, not having, absolutely. There's a quote that, uh. That I can paraphrase as boredom is the, is the mother of all creativity, you know, and, um, we need boredom, um, and we need discomfort also. There are so many things that our phones take away from us in terms of our life experience, and a lot of them are the.

Less pleasant ones, and that's the time to remind yourself to be kind to yourself. Because as humans, we do naturally, um, evolutionarily gravitate towards easier and more pleasant. Pleasant. That's what we're gonna do. If there's choice A and choice B. And choice A is easy and fun, and choice B is hard. And, and slow.

We're gonna do easy and [00:19:00] fun, you know? So we have to remember that part of it is not our fault that we're being presented with this. Um, and that goes back to designing your environment in a way that's aligned with how you wanna live your life. But. It's, it's tricky 'cause the phones are designed that way.

Yeah. And, and really everything we need to do is like on it. So it's, we're drawn, but we also need, need it. What do you find, I know you work with clients in kind of helping them navigate this. Um, what do you find is the hardest habit to like break with our phones? In terms of common problems, I would say responding immediately to notifications when they don't need to.

Like, I feel like that's so common. And then when I ask them, I'm like, well. How quickly do you need to respond to X, Y, Z? They're like, I guess I don't need to respond right away. But you know, someone has to ask them that question. Mm-hmm. And it makes sense. No, no one's asked them that before. [00:20:00] Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of expectations with responding though.

Yes, because we're also on. Our phones, computers, it's, it's accessible and you can even see if someone's reading it right, like it's a, or typing, right? So at the end of the day, it's like, you know, you're there. Um, so this is expectation that you have to like, do it and do it now. Yes. That's a really great point.

I have definitely worked with people who worried about. How's their gonna affect their job performance? Or how might it affect their, especially with like younger people, like in their twenties, um, how might it affect their social life? If, you know, they don't respond right away, then maybe they won't get invited along or.

Or whatever. So I definitely sympathize. Um, but I think that it's still manageable because you, you need to think about what the metric is. So how quickly do I need to respond to a boss's messages after hours? If it's within an [00:21:00] hour, that means that you do need to check once an hour, but it doesn't mean you need to check every five minutes.

Mm-hmm. So I think really thinking about. What do I want to give to the other side? And then holding yourself to that, but not to, to more is hard, but doable. Um, and then socially, I mean, again, I can't speak to the people that are a little younger than me. Um, and, and I think that. In their social circles, it does seem like the expectation is to respond a lot faster.

Mm-hmm. Um, because I was like, you know how I, I remember in the beginning of coaching I was working with, with someone like this, and I said, you know, how, how, how often do you really need to respond? In my head, I'm thinking like, three, four hours. Right? And he is like, 15 minutes. I was like, whoa. Like I, I couldn't believe that, you know?

And we were still able to make huge progress for him. But it was just interesting to me. And again, that goes back to. It's personalized, it's nuanced. Um, and, and maybe, [00:22:00] um, maybe it's okay for him to respond in 30 minutes instead of 15 because you can explicitly tell them, Hey, this is just interfering with my life too much.

I've decided that I'm gonna be using it a little bit less. Or the other thing you can do is just start responding less and people usually pick up on it or just notice, like, my friends know that it sometimes takes me a day to respond and it is what it is. Yeah, so true. Yeah. They, they do get used to it. I do think the younger generation though, you're right, it almost, um, my daughter explained it once to me as if it's like hurtful.

Actually, if someone doesn't respond, it's because it's, it's a hurtful thing for them, like. We don't like you, we don't wanna respond to you. It's like all these things. Whereas if, you know, I'm in my fifties, if I don't respond, you know, if they're like, no, and you get to it, she'll go back tomorrow, you know?

It's fine. Fine. And so it is different. How old is your daughter? She's 19 now. But this was probably in high school. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She had mentioned so hard. It's so hard [00:23:00] for teenage girls. Mm-hmm. So I do think, but you're right, I do think if they, and I think she did do this at the time, if you communicate that, hey, I'm gonna be on my phone a little bit less, um, I might not respond right away.

At least it's an expectation. So they already know that they're not, it's not like, oh, it's me that Yes, you're not responding to. Mm-hmm. So I do think that's a huge point. Although, you know, the communication piece is something we all have to work on. Right. So. Yes. And boundaries. But, and, and I will say, so I, I'm, I'm the type that responds less frequently, but then I get like a back load of texts, you know, which is like, kind of crazy.

It's almost like I need to clear out my inbox with emails. I also need to clear out my texts. Mm-hmm. So it's, it's tricky. Yeah. It is tricky. So can you walk us through some healthy habits that we can start like implementing into our day? Sure. So, um, when I work with people, and this is the same way I structure my book, I think about five different [00:24:00] categories.

So there's your physical space, which we've touched on a little bit, like not charging your phone in your bedroom, and we can get more into that. Then there's phone configuration and that's, you know, not getting so. Pinged, et cetera. But then after you clear out your physical and digital space, you also wanna think about what do you wanna put in this space?

You know, we don't wanna leave a vacuum, and I think a lot of times we end up being on our phone so much because it's easier to be on the phone than to think about the existential question of what do I wanna do with my life? Um, and so that's really important. And so uh. When people don't know where to start.

Um, a couple of prompts I use is, a couple of prompts I use are, if you had 10 extra hours in a week, what would you do with that time? Hmm. And if you use your phone for 10 less hours, you'll have those 10 hours. So you can answer the question first and then, and then think about that. Or you can think about what brings you joy and what [00:25:00] helps propel you towards your goals.

So you could think five years from now what would be great to have accomplished, either professionally, personally, socially, whatever, and then think about what are the little steps that I can take in my daily life to get there. Um, and then there's joy for some people. We already have things that we really enjoy doing.

Um, once you define what these things are, you wanna make them as accessible as possible because our phones, one of the reasons we reach for them so much is because they're usually within arm's distance. So you want to remove the phone from arm's reach, and you wanna put the other thing within arm's reach.

So I had a client, for example, she lived alone in a two bedroom apartment, and she. Loved painting. And so she set the second bedroom up as an artist studio so that she could paint, but she never painted. She would always go on her phone on zooms, like between zooms. So then I said, why don't you, 'cause she had a table and an with an easel.

So I said, why don't you just move that. Into your office next to your office, [00:26:00] next to your desk, so that it's right there. Then when you have 10 minutes between zooms, you can just swivel your desk and go and work on it. So she did that and she also had the idea, which I thought was cool, of, she had a, she has a candle and she lights the candle when she's doing creativity time.

So it kind of. It, it signals to her that like, now I'm doing this. Um, so it takes planning, but once you've done a little bit of laying the groundwork, it gets easier and easier. And then you find that it can be really rewarding. And so I think people stick to it. That part is really necessary because if you don't have a why and you're just like trying to self-improve yourself to use your phone less, then the, the, the screen time will cream will, um, creep back up again.

So. I'm, I'm happy to go into any of these in more detail though, in terms of like your physical space. Um, we talked about phone configuration a little bit, and then the last part of my book is identity, values and self. So it's tied a little bit [00:27:00] into not leaving a vacuum, but you wanna think about who do I wanna be as a person, you know, what are my values and are those aligned with my phone use?

So those are kind of some starting off points that people could use to reflect on their phone use. Yeah, and I love that. Such a great point of if you're gonna take something away, finding something to fill it with because you're right. Then you're like, uh, now what do I do? So, you know, because the phones are.

Very entertaining, so I love that. So yeah, let me, let's deep dive a little bit into the, the first one, the physical space for the phone. Yeah. Because, um, yeah, I am one that uses my phone. Yeah. I, I, I, I know about sleep. I'm a, I'm, thank God, a good sleeper. However, um, I put my next to my bed, it's my alarm clock.

You know, it's lots of things, you know, so it is my alarm [00:28:00] clock and it's, it's right there. It's right there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I urge people to do in my book is to buy an alarm clock that's almost a non-negotiable. Um, it's, it's because it's so hard not to go on your phone first thing in the morning if your phone is there so hard.

And I am like the, the lady that's writing about this, and I usually don't have my phone on my bedside table. But sometimes, occasionally on like a Friday night or something, I might scroll in bed and then put my phone on my bedside table and guess what I do in the morning? I will scroll. Like if it's there, I will do it, you know?

Um, so it just shows how powerful a little bit of intentional setup is. Um, but anyway, so I believe in what I call drop zones. So drop zones are where do you drop your phone? So you need two drop zones, at least. They might be the same one. So one is, where does your phone sleep at night? So you can think about that and also think of it [00:29:00] as if this is a play.

If every day is a play, when does the character of the phone enter the scene? You are the main character. You wake up in the morning, right? Mm-hmm. If you put your phone in the bathroom and you go to the bathroom to brush your teeth first thing in the morning, the phone enters the scene one minute into your day.

Is that what you want? If yes, fine. Put it in the bathroom. If no, put it somewhere else. Um, I put mine in the kitchen, um, because I sleep on the second floor and then I don't use it when I get downstairs in the kitchen, but then the kitchen's right next to the garage, and I usually take my, I take my phone with me when I drive my kids to work, uh, to school.

And so that's a convenience spot for it. So first you need to think about where do you want it to be when you sleep and you need to buy an alarm clock. Um, and you can buy an alarm clock for. The price of a cup of coffee. So there's just no excuses. Um, then the other thing you wanna think about is where do you put your phone when you get home?

So when you're kind of. Awake, so I guess during wake waking hours, where does your phone [00:30:00] rest? It might be in the same spot as nighttime, depending on your home's layout. Or it might go somewhere else depending on where you spend your time. And then once you've established those two drop zones, you wanna practice returning it to the drop zone after you've used it.

It seems really simple, but it's like magic if you do it. Um, it's also really convenient because then when you do need your phone, you know where it is. So when I started using my phone less, I would often lose it because I was using it less, but I didn't know where it was. But now I have drop zones. Um, and then if you wanna start getting fancy, you can think about.

Other additional drop zones. You know, if you work in person, in an office, or when you're going out, you know, I, I usually recommend not having it on your person to put it in a bag. Um, you can start thinking about where does my phone go when I am eating lunch with friends? Basically just thinking about how much access you want your phone to get to [00:31:00] have of you.

Um, but drop zone, so sleeping and waking hour. Mm-hmm. I would highly recommend that. Yeah. Um, and then one other thing I'll throw in is that you can also think about, um, roles that your phone plays in your life consistently. So if you use the calculator app a lot on your phone, for some reason for your work, or if you use the timer a lot when you're cooking, if you, if you're com, if you're using it for the same thing over and over, you could instead buy a dedicated device for that.

You can buy a calculator for $10. You can buy a timer to put in your kitchen. And first of all, it's usually easier. Like I have timers in my house for. My kids, my kids', screen time, like TV time, all sorts of things. And they're actually convenient because with your phone you have to keep like tapping it to make sure that it's awake.

It's the same for recipes. So like I, I cook, I used to look at the recipes on my phone. Now I print them out instead, you know, so thinking about we don't have to buy things that are phones can do just for the [00:32:00] sake of buying them, because then you're gonna have 400 gadgets that you don't need. But we all have a tendency to use our phone.

Consistently for the same thing. So kind of notice what those are and if it's practical, replace the phone with a A one A one purpose tool. Yeah. And I have to say, when I put my phone down, I do lose it as well. I have no idea where it is half the time. Um, but when I put it down and I do lose it. I actually feel this sense of, ah, relief, almost like, you know, until I have to figure out where to find it, you know, like, oh, I don't have my phone.

Where is it? Then I panic. But, but, but in that brief time that I'm not like carrying it around or looking at it. There's this like sense of relief that comes over me. That freedom. Yeah. Feels real freedom. It feels great. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I, I definitely love that. All right.

What is one thing that you want the listeners to start doing today? Today? Help them with their phones and screen times. If I [00:33:00] can only choose one, it would be for them to not sleep with their phones in their bedroom. Yeah, that's my big one. Okay. I really think it's a big one. Yeah. And if I could choose two, yeah, I would have them go through their notifications.

Ah, yes. Both great. One. That's my favorite physical and my favorite phone configuration. Okay. And easy, easy, right? Yeah. Move the phone outta your room, get yourself an alarm clock. Mm-hmm. Um, if you have young kids, maybe they're, you don't need 'em. Alarm. You don't need 'em. Exactly. Um, but okay. I will start to work on that because yes, I wake up and I tell myself I'm gonna meditate first.

I'm gonna journal and then I can look at my phone. But it doesn't ever happen. I'm like, oh, lemme just check it 'cause it's right there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, nope, we're not gonna do that. Okay. Where can the listeners find you and tell us about your book and everything that you offer. Thank you. Yeah, so, um, if you go to my website, which is how to stop scrolling.com, that's the name of my book, how to Stop Scrolling, which is coming [00:34:00] out in March, 2026.

But I have a, an email newsletter so you can sign up there, I can send you some tips and I'll also email you when my book is out. That's great

thank you so much for coming on the show. Learned so much, and I'm gonna start moving my phone. Amazing. Thank you for having me, me, Lisa. This is so much fun.

thank you for listening to this week's episode. If you wanna connect more with Ruby, just click on the link in the show notes, and until next week, keep carving out time for yourself and keep putting yourself on top of your to-do list. I.